Maximizing End-of-Life Product Value With Reverse Logistics: Emily Petway of GivenKind, Real Finds Podcast #38 Transcript
Emily Petway: I think the real misnomer is that people believe that just because it’s end of life for that company, it has to be the end of life for the goods. We focus on taking those new goods and giving them a second life in a market that really needs that infusion of supply, because the demand is so high. We love to see ourselves as not only doing good but providing a logistics break for the companies making the conscious choice to place goods with us, because it’s such a financial benefit. Why would you take a loss or liquidate when we can offer you such a positive tax incentive?
Gordon Lamphere: Thanks for joining us today on the Real Finds Podcast. Today we welcome Emily Petway, founder of GivenKind, one of the region’s fastest-growing nonprofits, which harnesses the value of end-of-life products to support hundreds of local charities. On the podcast, we discuss reverse logistics, gaps in the supply chain, and the power of end-of-life product donation over traditional liquidation methods. If you’re a decision maker looking to clear your warehouse and recapture value, this podcast is well worth a listen. Emily, thanks for hopping on the podcast today.
Emily Petway: Thanks for the introduction.
Gordon Lamphere: We like to start by letting you introduce yourself, because you know more about yourself than anybody does.
Emily Petway: I’d be happy to. I’m the founder and executive director of GivenKind. We’re a unique nonprofit that takes in goods, rescues them from the economy, and places them with nonprofit organizations throughout the Chicagoland area. I got here through an unconventional approach, as many people do: growing up in a family business, pursuing a career in education for a number of years, and then, through seeking different opportunities and trying to solve problems, finding myself in the role of founder and executive director of GivenKind.
A Tradition of Service
Gordon Lamphere: You like to describe an unconventional path to serving others, but I had a long conversation with your mother last week, and you have a long tradition of service. What got you hooked on serving others and helping the community?
Emily Petway: Oh my gosh, thanks, Gordon. Whenever you talk to someone’s mom, no one is a better salesperson than a parent. So thanks, Mom. I really do thank my parents, because that’s how I got my start. Not unlike you, there was a family business. My dad was in the form, fill, and seal packaging business. We did a lot of hotel amenities, which was the bulk of what we did for companies like Dial. In any manufacturing production, there’s surplus, or a trial run, or things where the film is off or the code is off and they can’t enter the traditional consumer stream. What do you do with those extras? It became fun for me to set up a free convenience store in my basement for neighbors to come get shaving cream, shampoo, and conditioner. Then we realized there was more than our neighborhood could handle, so we’d take cases to what’s now the Zacharias Center in Gurnee, a place where women who were struggling and needed a fresh start could have basic necessities. That always stuck with me: we had surplus, and there was a need to be filled. From a very early age, that was formative.
With my mom being a teacher, and having been influenced by so many amazing educators, that was the path I wanted to follow. I was a high school band director, and I had a student I knew was working to pay her family’s electric bill. I said, Amanda, are you going to prom this year? She said no. I said, is it the ticket? Do you need help with the ticket? She said, no, it’s the dress. From that, I thought I needed to start a prom dress bank for my students. That’s when I discovered how much more a nonprofit needs than what’s obvious. You could imagine a prom dress bank needs dresses, accessories, shoes. But to my surprise, and to our budget’s surprise, it was the other line items that were off the radar. We needed a vacuum cleaner. Post-it notes. At one point, of all things, a lawnmower, to keep up our space so we could keep our donated facility. Necessity is the mother of invention. We were spending so much time trying to find the items we needed to keep going and fulfill our mission, and that’s where the idea of GivenKind was born: there had to be a way to take items being let go of, in the wrong place at the wrong time for companies, and connect them to organizations like the prom dress bank I was running at Becca’s Closet, where they were essential to continuing the mission.
What GivenKind Is
Gordon Lamphere: For anybody listening who’s not familiar, what is GivenKind?
Emily Petway: GivenKind is a unique logistics link between companies that have surplus goods and nonprofits who use them to fulfill their mission and impact the community. It’s amazing, and probably known to some of your listeners, how many reasons companies have to let go of goods: promotional items, seasonal packaging changes, canceled orders. The list goes on, which is why the reverse logistics industry is so large, on the order of trillions of dollars annually. There’s been a big shift from a linear reverse logistics stream to a circular one, and we’re part of that, infusing goods back into being useful rather than companies being forced to burn it, bury it, or send it off for liquidation. Donation is a socially, environmentally, and, quite honestly, bottom-line responsible option.
Gordon Lamphere: I’d like to double back on that. We have listeners involved in reverse logistics, and there are really two types. There’s reverse logistics for goods that are traditionally reusable in the market, but there’s also a ton of goods that aren’t, and that’s where GivenKind does an amazing job. A lot of people don’t understand that there are so many goods companies can’t put out for a variety of reasons.
Emily Petway: There are, and there’s such a need. I’m thankful for the accolades, but that’s also what we feel should be our strongest suit. We don’t do direct services. We want our logistics operations to have not just a lot of heart but a lot of smart. Companies are forced into these decisions mostly for financial reasons. You have goods that can’t go back into the stream because of seasonality or a conflict with marketing. We have one really well-known product that just changed the color of its packaging, and you can’t use that package anymore, but the product itself is fine. That’s the misnomer: just because it’s end of life for the company doesn’t mean it’s end of life for the goods. We take those new goods and give them a second life in a market with so much demand. We see ourselves as doing good and as providing a logistics break for companies making that conscious choice, because it’s such a financial benefit. Why take a loss or liquidate when we can offer such a positive tax incentive for this kind of giving?
The Financial and Social Case for Donation
Gordon Lamphere: Can you talk more about that? A lot of people, even small business owners who aren’t CPAs or tax lawyers, don’t always understand that giving can be financially receiving under the tax code.
Emily Petway: I want to be careful not to bill myself as a tax expert. You have to consult your tax professional, because it’s custom to each organization, its books, and what benefit applies depending on where you are, what you’ve got, and what you’re giving. I won’t quote numbers, but there are a number of studies you can reference. Indiana University did a really interesting one on the benefits of giving, and that it’s such a positive financial choice for so many that goes overlooked. And that’s not even mentioning the social capital gained. So many companies run campaigns based on the social impact they’re making, and what a great way to jump in, because people are paying attention. Consumers are choosing companies that make socially conscious decisions. What a great way to enter the game: take goods you consider end of life, almost a burden, and use them as a reinvestment in your brand and in the community at the same time.
Gordon Lamphere: And so many aspects of being socially conscious are hotly contested these days, but the charities you give to are things like the Northern Illinois Food Bank, charities where every consumer can say, I’m so proud that a company like Walgreens partnered with them and their goods are going to a cause everyone can be happy about.
Emily Petway: We’re really proud of the work we do. We’re fortunate to partner with over 550 nonprofit partners in Illinois alone. We see those partners come in and interact with them. We know the work they’re doing, and we’re excited that those items get to serve the community in a whole new way. Our corporate partners are proud of that work too. We love reporting the stories of impact, and it’s another way for the company’s community investment to recharge its own teams, so it’s not just stuff anymore. It’s serving a purpose.
Press-On Nails and the Resourcefulness of Nonprofits
Gordon Lamphere: I’ve taken a couple of strolls through your warehouses, and there are some very interesting goods that get donated. What are some of the craziest or most out-there goods you’ve received?
Emily Petway: I love this topic. Like the prom dress bank needing a lawnmower, I don’t think there’s a thorough understanding of how resourceful nonprofits are. Before I tell stories about specific items, I want to say that nonprofits are the most imaginative. I want to say scrappy, but that undervalues it. They’re filled with ingenuity and creativity, and they’re real problem solvers. If you’ve got a new item of quality, nonprofits will find a way to use it. Of course we have basic needs goods. It’s easy to imagine how Vessi shoes, which are 100% waterproof, could benefit a refugee population. That’s where it’s obvious a thing has become a tool. But Walgreens, one of our largest donors of goods, had press-on nails. And you think, what could an organization do with press-on nails? We’re not rescuing anyone from a fire. There isn’t an animal that needs its shots. But the Palatine Senior Center came in, and the nails went to provide personal care sessions for their residents. Sometimes it’s not an immediate, urgent disaster situation. It’s quality of life and a demonstration of care that takes something off the radar and moves it into real purpose. So press-on nails would be my example of something that might not be a traditional basic need but is definitely added value for the community, and hopefully for Walgreens too, in understanding how their goods are used.
Sorting, Quality, and Process
Gordon Lamphere: Quality of life matters. Let’s talk about the quality of the goods you bring in. What’s your sorting process?
Emily Petway: We’re fortunate that partners like ShipBob, Walgreens, and Dick’s Sporting Goods understand they’re giving these items as a gift, so the items we receive are really great. Walgreens in particular is a leader in reverse logistics and giving. It still takes a lot of touchpoints, because some boxes are mixed, so we check for quality and sort so items can be best used by organizations. We put a lot of thought into how we train volunteers and team members to process and prepare goods. It is a logistics organization. There are a lot of eyes on items, a lot of counting, and a lot of accountability.
Gordon Lamphere: What is that process of intake and training volunteers? Some of my clients in reverse logistics do less end-of-life product, and it takes a lot to onboard somebody.
Emily Petway: The answer is different for every donation we receive. We try to create a process that’s repeatable, and when we see something we’ve received before, we’re thrilled. It’s much like the for-profit world: when you’re receiving such a large quantity of SKUs, you have to treat items differently. We’re trying to automate and replicate what we can, knowing that flexibility is paramount. We drill it down to the most basic level. It’s a filtration process. There’s a repeatable process for volunteers, we check it, and then we put it up on our catalog so nonprofits can see what we have. We have a whole system depending on the vendor and what we’ve received, and within categories like apparel or personal health care, we treat things differently based on what’s coming in.
ESG, Speed, and the Cost of Space
Gordon Lamphere: Companies are worried about their environmental footprint. Why would a company give you goods under the concept of being environmentally friendly? What’s the methodology?
Emily Petway: ESG, environmental, social, and governance, is coming. It’s prevalent in so many other countries, and the earth is shaking here as we all understand that these rules and regulations are coming to the States. You can start early adopting now, and we’d love to offer the flexibility to try that with us early on so we can grow together. But the immediacy of what we do, how quickly we respond and how fast we can pick up goods, provides an escape, because usually when items reach end of life and need to leave your warehouse, they need to leave now. Because we’ve seen such variety, we can be responsive, and that’s added value to the environmental piece. If you need it gone yesterday and we can be there, it’s much less likely to see a landfill or an incinerator.
Gordon Lamphere: You don’t have to drive around an industrial park long to see a tremendous amount of goods that can’t be disposed of fast enough, or that are in dumpsters, because it’s still such a tight industrial market and there’s no space.
Emily Petway: I love talking to you about space, because no one understands it better than you do. In industrial, of course the items have value, but the space they take up per pallet is also a cost. We were talking to a vendor storing fourteen pallets of socks, and it was costing them a hundred dollars a day. So the choice was burn it or donate it. We’re so grateful when they make the second choice, because we can be there quickly, and with hundreds of partners and socks being such a highly needed item, those are on the feet of someone in need very quickly.
Moving Goods Out
Gordon Lamphere: How do you go about moving goods? We worked hard to place you in a great space, but you don’t have unlimited room, and there’s a lot of need and demand. How do you move goods out to nonprofits without overwhelming the warehouse?
Emily Petway: Great question, and our warehouse friends at GivenKind who are listening would love me to move it out even faster. But we moved $10 million worth of goods last year, and we’ve only been in our new facility, which increased our capacity by over 90%, for four months. The sky is much bluer and the ceiling much higher now that we’re in this fabulous new place you helped us find, so we’re very grateful, and we look forward to even larger capacity this year. The answer for us is making sure we understand the goods coming in, sorting them and making them visible to nonprofit partners, and finding nonprofit partners who need what we have. We’re working on all those fronts: recruiting more corporate partners with items to give, refining our filtration process, posting items so nonprofits can see them, increasing our accuracy, and finding organizations who put them to good use. There are 72,000 nonprofits in Illinois. That’s a lot of organizations, a lot of need, and a lot of creativity in how problems are being solved. We feel we have something to offer.
Gordon Lamphere: How do you find someone to offer those goods to, or do people seek you out?
Emily Petway: There’s a little Field of Dreams in it. If you build it, they will come. I’m so happy baseball season is back. If you have what people need, they find you. But it’s like any business. How many times have you said, I’m from Van Vlissingen, and people say, I know who you are, and you think, score. That’s how we feel. It’s all about visibility and sharing the service you provide. We go to networking events and conferences, we send out newsletters, we do all we can to increase the visibility of our mission, because that’s how people get goods. And having good goods makes a huge difference. That’s the winning combination.
The Final Four
Gordon Lamphere: We’re getting to our Final Four, a great place to learn a little more about you, your organization, and where things are going. First: where do you see the nonprofit sector going ten years out? You’re one of the best voices to answer this, because you’re not only a nonprofit, you work with so many other nonprofits in Illinois.
Emily Petway: Thanks, Gordon. I feel privileged to be part of a mission where we see so much foot traffic of nonprofit professionals through our door. I can’t speak for them, but what I’m seeing much more of is a solid advocacy piece. It used to be that you’d have a mission, and if people were interested, they’d come through your doors and you’d do good things together. Now I see nonprofits speaking up for what they need, going after what will help their mission grow, and trying to be more embedded in the communities they serve, really listening to the need. There’s so much noise in all the streams of media we consume. It’s like drinking from a fire hose. I find our nonprofits are centering themselves, thinking about what they need to serve their mission, and going after it more pointedly. I see nonprofit social enterprise thinking more like for-profit business, and a meld of the two moving forward in the same thoughtful, prioritized vein. I see a lot more focus.
Gordon Lamphere: Is that niching down? Where do you think that focus is going?
Emily Petway: There are so many ways problems are being solved in the nonprofit sector. I love that there’s a focus on animal welfare, a focus on housing insecurity, and if you look through the lens of each, the focus is getting clearer. I love that you have to look through different lenses to see it, and I hope it stays that way. There isn’t one large nonprofit conglomerate. We’re all finding how we can benefit the community and calling on each other when their expertise is needed. That’s what I see because that’s what I’m looking for, and I’m hopeful we get better at what we do so we can bolster each other up.
Gordon Lamphere: I think that’s where a lot of the world is moving, nonprofit or for-profit, because expertise and niching down are so important in today’s flat, globally connected world. Let’s step back in time to young Emily. We have a lot of younger listeners in their twenties and thirties looking to make a difference who don’t necessarily know how to take that first step. What would your advice be?
Emily Petway: I’ll go back in my time machine, though I’m glad to be in the time period I’m in now. Looking back, what I found value in might be different from what someone else values, and that’s beautiful. So I’d say, how do you want to help? I’d look for two things. There’s a Mr. Rogers quote about looking for the helpers in a situation. Model yourself on what you see someone doing that’s positive and resonates with you. If you don’t have an answer but you see what someone else is doing and think, I want to do that, emulate those people. And if you have a passion and don’t know where to start, start small. Any act of kindness is an act of kindness. If you find yourself wanting to do more of them, in an organized way, the opportunities are endless and boundless. Start where you are, grow, and then find other people doing the same thing.
Gordon Lamphere: I’m never going to argue with Mr. Rogers. He was a beloved part of my childhood.
Emily Petway: It’s profound when you really think about the message he was trying to share. It’s timeless.
Gordon Lamphere: One way we find timeless advice is books. We usually get a lot of business books on the podcast, so let’s step away from those. Is there a book that’s inspired your passion for giving and service?
Emily Petway: One of my favorite books is about adversity. It’s a difficult book, and it’s fiction, but I love A Thousand Splendid Suns. I love the book, and what it says about staying true to finding yourself amidst really awful adversity. It made me think a lot about that. It’s a difficult topic, but really interesting, and it makes people reflect when you look at someone else’s life through their eyes, even a fictional character. I find that thought provoking.
Gordon Lamphere: Difficulty is truly inspiring. Viktor Frankl’s book has really inspired me, the whole idea of the pursuit of meaning through difficulty. Fiction or nonfiction, it’s an important aspect of what we pursue. And what we’re ultimately pursuing on the podcast is the next person to have on. We’re going to bring you on again, but if there’s a voice we could reach out to next, who would it be?
Emily Petway: I’m fortunate to be surrounded by people who, speaking of adversity, have started grassroots organizations solving problems in unique ways across the sector. Those stories are really inspiring, and although they haven’t written books, hearing and learning from them has been inspiring. One person who sticks out is Senator Adriane Johnson. She’s been a wonderful champion of our organization, and through that connection I’ve gotten to know her. She’s an excellent listener, and because of that she thinks thoughtfully about the change she can speak up for and help create. She takes that responsibility seriously. Watching her think through a process makes me ask, what am I not seeing? What more should I be thinking about? She brings such gravity and such levity to those things. So I’d recommend Senator Adriane Johnson.
Gordon Lamphere: She’s in the building. I’ll have to reach out. She’s difficult to get right now as we ramp up for political season, but maybe when things wind down we’ll catch her. One more question, and for you it’s multifaceted. First, if somebody in the nonprofit sector wants to reach out, what’s the best way to get in touch?
Emily Petway: Please reach out. You can find us at givenkind.org, and you can reach me at [email protected]. Email is the fastest way. I love hearing stories about how people are solving problems, and if we can help solve a problem, space-wise or logistically, or you have an item or truckloads to contribute, any way we can facilitate giving to match your giving goals is something we want to be part of.
Gordon Lamphere: And second, for volunteers, because I know you need them.
Emily Petway: We do. Same way, through givenkind.org. Under Get Involved, there’s a volunteer explanation of the tasks and the help we’re looking for. And again, I love connecting with people at [email protected].
Gordon Lamphere: Emily, thank you so much for hopping on the podcast.
Emily Petway: Thanks, Gordon. Thank you so much for having me.
Gordon Lamphere: Thanks again to Emily. If you enjoyed the podcast, please give us a like, a comment, and a subscription. We truly appreciate your interactions, subscriptions, and reviews. They help us continue to get quality guests. You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts. I’m Gordon Lamphere with the Real Finds Podcast. Thank you for listening.
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