How CEOs View The 2026 Economic Outlook & Return To Office With Joe Galvin RFP – 80 Transcript
Gordon Lamphere (00:04): I’m Gordon Lamphere with The Real Finds Podcast, where we have real conversations with key entrepreneurs, activists, and researchers who are shaping the real estate industry and, as a result, our world. On today’s podcast, we step into the shoes of America’s financial decision makers with Joe Galvin, Chief Research Officer at Vistage. We share insights into the minds of America’s top CEOs on generational divides in the workforce, the role of AI in the workplace, the return to office, and, most importantly, how corporate America perceives the state of the US economy. Joe, thank you so much for hopping on the podcast today.
Joe Galvin (00:48): Hey Gordon, thank you for having me. Looking forward to having a conversation today.
From Pro Basketball to CEO Research
Gordon Lamphere (00:52): So what got you into the world of work?
Joe Galvin (00:56): Like everyone, you reach a point where you realize you want certain things in life and you have ambitions. I began my working life as an athlete. I was a college basketball player and played professionally in Spain. Then I transitioned to sales in New York City with Xerox, and from there to Gartner. If you’re familiar with Gartner, it’s the world’s leading IT research and advisory firm. I was an early employee there, and that tracked my career as I built and grew that sales organization. Then I transitioned and became an analyst, and that led me to where I am today at Vistage as chief research officer.
Vistage provides executive coaching and peer advisory services for CEOs of small and mid-sized businesses. I apply my Gartner-esque business analyst mindset to understanding the issues, challenges, and topics these CEOs identify as most important to them. Vistage has over 44,000 members worldwide, and in the United States more than twelve or thirteen thousand companies where CEOs are members. So I’m in a unique position to capture what these CEOs are saying and thinking.
We’ve published the Vistage CEO Confidence Index quarterly since 2003. It’s a series of questions about their sentiment on the economy, looking backward and forward, revenues, profits, and investments. More importantly, we can ask them open-ended questions and data questions, and now, courtesy of AI, we can blend that together to really capture their voice and what they’re saying is most important to them. We’re getting better and better at slicing that by region, vertical, and other company attributes.
What’s powerful is that when you compare it to fact-based economic data on inflation, unemployment, interest rates, and so on, this is sentiment data. It shows how small and mid-sized business CEOs, who really are the backbone of the US economy, are viewing, perceiving, and acting in the current environment. That’s across all topics: the people who work for you, the customers who buy from you, the operations that produce your product or service, and the numbers behind it. We focus on those leaders. How do they lead? How do they show up as leaders? What are the best processes, tactics, and strategies for leading? And what are the issues they lead on, whether that’s talent, customers, operations, or finance? It’s a lot of fun, and it’s really creative.
Joe Galvin (03:21): But most importantly, I’m able to capture what I think is the voice of small and mid-sized business CEOs across the country.
What CEOs Are Worried About
Gordon Lamphere (03:28): So what are CEOs concerned about these days?
Joe Galvin (03:30): We ask that question, “What are your big challenges?” and for really the last three quarters, the answer has been uncertainty. The shifting sands. I call it the Mr. Miyagi approach to tariffs: tariffs on, tariffs off. It’s whipsawed from early in the year, when it was just talk, to now, when companies are writing checks and paying for these tariffs in manufacturing, and in some cases they’ve been passed on in construction. Now it’s beginning to flow through. That uncertainty and the instability that goes with it create a very challenging environment for CEOs to think about and really plan their businesses. Uncertainty is the big issue, and it’s driving their priorities, along with political stability.
We’ve seen a shift: hiring and retention has returned to the number two concern. It had been number three, behind tariffs and how tariffs are affecting margins. Talent has come back in. It’s interesting, because when you look at the workforce, overall demand for workers is flat. In certain verticals like construction and manufacturing, 13% are looking to decrease headcount in the year ahead. Is that a result of a slowing economy, or of productivity gains through automation or technology? We don’t know. We don’t have evidence of that yet.
But it shows that hiring remains a challenge, and what’s driving that challenge is that there aren’t enough skilled workers at every level. There are people looking for jobs and jobs looking for people, but the skill set has changed. The demands on workers, whether physical essential workers or knowledge workers, are higher, and leaders are looking for better people. As we move into what still seems to be a growing economy, people will still be the fossil fuel of that growth engine.
Next up is tariffs and what they mean for margins. Forty-three percent have increased prices in the last six months, and fifty-one percent are going to increase prices in the months ahead. And interestingly, there’s a shift back to the workforce and the importance of engagement and stability. It’s a changing world. The economy is growing, but layoffs are happening, interest rates are what they are, and we can get into that. But the question is: do leaders have a stable and engaged workforce?
Joe Galvin (05:57): We saw the volatility coming out of COVID, with everybody leaving and changing jobs. Now there’s less turnover and more retention. People are job hugging. And the reality is that it’s not just about having people in jobs, but having them engaged. Engagement, a metric that’s been around for a long time, is resurfacing as you make sure the people you have, as people become more expensive, are really performing the way you need. That gets back to my earlier point about how the bar for what workers have to do has been raised. So that’s top of mind. The topics remain the same, and the points of emphasis shift, but the categories don’t really change that much, or at least they haven’t since the first of the year.
Gordon Lamphere (06:40): Are there particular sore spots in sections of the marketplace that have had especially hard times finding employees, or is it generally across the board?
Joe Galvin (07:03): I think it’s more across the board. When you get into specifics, like construction or advanced manufacturing, yes, there’s a skill set required. If you’re involved in solar or other really technical products and services, there’s a skill set required. We know the trades, the demand for skilled welders. Those jobs still exist and will exist. Electricians, plumbers. So there’s a whole wave of what needs to happen. The demand for skills goes up, but the people available to do that work just aren’t as readily available. That’s the challenge: the bar has risen for what’s expected in every role, and not everyone is able to step up to that changing demand.
Hybrid Work and the End of “MF95”
Gordon Lamphere (07:47): I have a lot of conversations with CEOs, COOs, and HR directors about hybrid work, and it’s something I’ve seen you write a lot about. What is the C-suite talking about, and how do they perceive hybrid work these days?
Joe Galvin (08:07): I put hybrid work in the context of the workplace experience. Before COVID, we had a dominant MF95. That’s not a new gang or a new operating system. MF95 refers to the Monday-to-Friday, nine-to-five, analog, industrial-era workplace, where you were expected to show up at 9 AM on Monday and could leave at 5 PM on Friday, or some variation on that. Attendance was expected. Only in unique and specialized cases did you have remote people or special exemptions.
COVID changed all that and brought the hybrid workplace into play, specifically for knowledge workers. Essential workers, if you’re in construction, manufacturing, healthcare, or certain business services, have to be on site. That’s not going to change. You may reduce the number of them through automation, but you’ll need people who can operate those advanced machines. Then there are your knowledge workers in finance, HR, accounting, sales, and marketing. These are people who work with numbers, words, images, voice, and video. They work with knowledge, and they can work from anywhere. When I talk about hybrid, I’m thinking about knowledge workers.
What COVID and the rapid move to remote did was open up that possibility and make leaders realize there’s an opportunity to embrace it. It drives engagement for employees who have that flexibility, though not everyone can. But it challenges things like collaboration and innovation. So we went through a rapid learning experience, and now the hybrid and remote environment is relatively stable. We’re not seeing a dramatic shift in small and mid-sized businesses. We had over 1,300 CEOs respond to our data in early September. There’s no radical shift in the models, and we haven’t seen one in over a year. We’re seeing a little tuning, maybe going from three days in the office to four, or some variation on that theme. But by and large, CEOs aren’t swimming upstream on this issue with all the other challenges going on.
Joe Galvin (10:28): The status quo has been set in these small and mid-sized businesses, and any change to it breaks the social contract with the workforce by saying, “Okay, we’re going back to five days in the office.” Big companies can dictate it, and we saw headlines earlier in the year, but they’ve kind of backed off. Why? Because workers are restless, and it affects their engagement. We’re not seeing the turnover because the opportunities aren’t there. But in the small and mid-sized marketplace, breaking that social contract isn’t something CEOs want to do in light of everything else they’re trying to accomplish. So we see the hybrid, remote, and on-site model as relatively stable. We’re also seeing that leaders, specifically the managers who work directly with workers, are getting better at managing the hybrid environment.
And hybrid workers recognize how much they value flexibility. Flexibility is one of the new requirements of the workplace. As a leader, you can choose to be fully on site, fully remote, or anywhere on that spectrum, and you’ll attract people who want to work in that model. So the decision you make as a leader today, “This is our model,” is the model that will attract or repel people. If you want five days a week in the office, the MF95 mindset, that’s who’s going to want to work there. Some people want to work like that, and that’s fine. Others don’t. It’s like designing your product for the marketplace to attract and retain workers. Because no matter how far we go down the path of AI in the workplace, looking toward 2030, it will still require humans to operate the advanced agents and AI systems that will
Joe Galvin: revolutionize business as we look far over the horizon.
Five Generations in One Workplace
Gordon Lamphere (12:25): Is there a big generational divide in how people perceive this, and in how the C-suite perceives the generations in the office?
Joe Galvin (12:35): Absolutely. You’ve got five generations in the workplace, from boomers at the end of their careers to the new folks just coming in. Boomers grew up in an analog world, and Gen Z, coming into the workforce, knows nothing but digital. There are different ways of viewing and interpreting the world, different ways of working together, collaborating, and getting things done, and managing how those generations interact and intersect is really important. That said, the movement toward the future-state office is going to pull Gen Z toward it faster, while boomers drop out and no longer want to keep up.
Bringing it back to hybrid: the Gen Zs who’ve entered the workforce have always had it. They don’t know any different. But old guys like me grew up in MF95, “you will be here,” which existed even ten years ago. It’s an amazing revolution. I’ve worked from home since 2012, and I could never imagine going back to an office. But I think for younger workers, a fully virtual or fully remote environment isn’t the best. They miss out on building relationships. I go to games with guys I worked with at Xerox in the ’80s. We built networks, and my time at Gartner built networks of people, because you’re seeing them and you’re physically engaged with them.
So I’d counsel any Gen Zs, or anyone young in the workforce: go to the office. Be in the office. Be there when your boss is there, and when the smart people are there. Interact with them and build those relationships. There will be time later in your career to move out to a more distant horizon. But right here, right now, it’s about learning from others and building relationships. That still matters, and I believe it always will.
Measuring Productivity
Gordon Lamphere (14:32): One of the most productive things I’ve ever done at work, whether in law, sales, real estate, or investing, is just getting a cup of coffee with the folks around the office who really know what they’re doing. One thing we hear a lot of people talking about is productivity in general and how we measure it. I don’t think we have it all figured out, and I’m not sure we ever will. How do CEOs see productivity and measure productive workspaces?
Joe Galvin (15:11): Productivity is like the old British saying: how long is a piece of string? It depends. In widget-type environments, to use a simple phrase, when I know it costs X to produce Y and I have hard numbers on my inputs, that’s one way to measure productivity. When you apply it to people, it becomes more difficult. I’ve got two hundred people producing, say, a hundred million dollars. Can I get two hundred people to produce a hundred fifty million? And how do you do that? Now you’re into the value of what a human does, and how to measure and quantify that. That’s really hard.
You can measure time, which was the MF95, analog-world approach. We wanted you there from nine to five and expected you to work hard during that time. Well, that’s all changed, with people working 24/7 and working flexibly, where they can and where they want. So productivity becomes much harder to measure. I’d suggest it’s like culture: you can’t see it, but you can feel it when you walk into an organization. It’s like gravity. You can’t see gravity, but you feel it with every step. You can sense productivity, and it increases based on how people engage and function.
Increases in productivity have been driven by technology, but on an individual basis. AI, specifically generative AI, is driving leaps and bounds in individual productivity as people figure out quickly how to apply this tool to what they do. That creates a challenge for leaders. If I can now turn a four-hour knowledge task into a thirty-minute one, what do I do with those three and a half hours? Because I’m remote, am I going to another Pilates class or mowing the yard? Or am I reinvesting that time into digging deeper and creating more? That’s the tension slowly building as individual productivity rises.
I could go on a tangent here, but it’s interesting how workers figuring out how to do things better is already being co-opted by leaders who say, “We’re not going to replace someone who leaves until you can show me that AI can’t do it,”
Joe Galvin (17:34): or, “If somebody leaves, we’re not going to replace them, and you’re all going to figure out how to handle that workload more productively.” So it creates tension, again in the knowledge worker space, as people want to do more and, in some cases, are penalized for it.
The Meeting Tax
Gordon Lamphere (17:52): One of the big penalties we’ve talked about on the podcast is the meeting tax, and I know you’ve written about it at length. There are definitely effective work cultures, but the meeting-heavy workplace is probably not one of them. Can you elaborate on where we’re seeing the balance between working together and just working to fill up the day?
Joe Galvin (18:20): Let me go back to my metaphor of the Monday-to-Friday, nine-to-five office. In that environment, people showed up, maybe disengaged, and filled their calendars with meetings to create the illusion of activity and busyness, because they had to be there all day anyway. It’s easier to sit in a meeting and nod your head than to actually try to do something. “Quiet quitters” was the phrase bouncing around the employment space for a while. Well, they thrived in the early days of remote work, because they could quit all the way and just show up with a shirt on and gym shorts and go through the motions.
I think the meeting-heavy culture was driven by the requirement to fill your time and create the illusion of being busy. But busy isn’t productive. Busy is just busy. So when you pull this apart, it’s: why are meetings being held? What are the goals and objectives, and how do they fit into what we’re trying to accomplish? Compare that with a more nimble, digitally driven ability to interact in groups quickly in a virtual world. That’s where I think things are moving. It’s not so much about filling conference rooms as creating environments where people can collaborate and share. Especially where people are in the office three days a week, those are the days you want to have meetings, the days you want people together to collaborate, innovate, get to know each other, and build relationships, so they can then go off and do their individual work somewhere better suited to it, which is usually the remote environment.
Building a Conscious Culture
Gordon Lamphere (19:59): So how do we keep culture, whether we’re remote, hybrid, or even in the office five days a week, without forcing people to gather? Is it pizza parties? What’s the methodology for maintaining a good workforce culture?
Joe Galvin (20:24): As I said, whether you do it consciously or not, there’s a culture in every organization. Put a group of humans together for a half-day seminar, and a culture will emerge. That’s just how humans function. So we talk about creating a conscious culture. A conscious culture means everyone in the organization understands the values, the mission, the purpose, and what we’re tied to. Workers fundamentally need to feel that the work they do is valued and respected and contributes to something beyond themselves, that they’re connected to what the organization is doing.
Culture is driven by the leader, who creates it, establishes the standards, and lives and breathes it down through the organization. But as a worker, I experience culture directly through my manager. The evangelists of the culture have to be your managers. If my manager embraces the culture, talks about the values, and connects what we do to the greater purpose, I’ll feel connected to it. And then there’s the human stuff managers have to do. If my manager says, “That CEO is crazy,” or “We’re not doing that,” or builds his own little fiefdom culture, that’s when cultures get torn apart.
That gets amplified in a hybrid environment. In a physical environment, it’s much easier to see, observe, and muscle through. In a hybrid environment, where things effectively happen in a digital sphere, it’s much harder to see where that occurs. So building culture starts with the leader being authentic, creating clear, shared goals and objectives, and being transparent, which builds trust. Trust takes months and years to build and seconds to destroy, but it’s imperative to a culture. Then that culture has to live and breathe through the manager working with the workers, making them feel part of something bigger than themselves. That’s a key element of engagement, and engagement is really the measure of employees’ willingness to give discretionary effort to improve their performance, and therefore the performance of the business.
Designing the Office of the Future
Gordon Lamphere (22:36): Building culture over the years is great. I work with a lot of businesses with wonderful cultures, and some that are improving theirs. One way we can help isn’t by sitting there hour by hour helping them improve their culture, but by helping them find spaces that work. I know you’ve written about the office of the future and trends in design, layout, and structure. Could you touch on designing an office for the future? It’s near and dear to my heart and to what I do every day.
Joe Galvin (23:26): To answer that, first you have to talk about what the office of the future will look like, and I think two letters will define it: A and I. I call it Workplace 2030. We’re in the first wave, not a wave on a beach, but a pulse of energy, of individual productivity driven by AI. The second pulse will be at the work group level, where we look at automating how you and I work together and find the points of friction, stress, or opportunity where our work group can do better. The third, bigger, more transformative, and longer-term pulse is organizational transformation, when you rebuild the business around an AI world. The generative AI you see today is a biplane compared to the prop plane we’ll see in five years and the turbojet we’ll see in ten. That’s the progression.
Put that in the context of essential workers. They’ll be plugging into smarter, more virtual systems. You’ll be dealing with avatars and bots when you check on something, whether you’re in the field or on the line. For knowledge workers, the people who are digitally engaged today, really pushing the envelope on what they can do with AI, will be the operators of these advanced agents and systems. They won’t be fully automated. They’ll require human intervention. So you’ll still need the people operating those systems to be connected at a human level with the people driving strategy, because information flows in both directions. Leaders will have deeper insights and more specific, precise, up-to-the-nanosecond access to information through AI agents and bots to make decisions, but those decisions have to flow through the operators of these systems, whether customer systems, marketing, sales, inventory, or anything else.
Joe Galvin (25:45): Think about that layer of automation, the autonomous nature of what agents can do, and who the workers operating those systems will be. You’ll still need HR, you’ll still need finance, you’ll still need people, but they’ll be doing radically different things than they do today.
I grew up in the Midwest, in Bloomington, a child of State Farm Insurance. My dad worked at State Farm, and I remember visiting his office in the ’60s. It was a massive floor of people doing data entry into ledgers, on typewriters and physical ledgers. Fast forward to one guy in a corner with a computer, and fast forward again to an AI world where it just happens. That’s the transformation. All those people on typewriters found other things to do. The people operating today’s systems will find other things too. Not all of them will become operators of next-generation systems, but there will be places, jobs, and opportunities for them. It’s not like they’ll go jobless, but that transformation is going to happen.
So what does that workspace need to look like? It needs to be entirely human, because so much of what gets done will be automated. It needs environments for human interaction, because you’ll still want relationships and trust between leaders, managers, and workers. You’ll want creative and collaborative spaces, because there’s no end state where we say, “We finally got there, and now we’re AI transformed.” It’s always going to evolve. So you’ll need environments for innovation and constant evolution of processes, tools, and systems. What you want to happen there are the things only humans can do: trust, relationships, innovation, and creativity. Let the machines do the repetitive work and the automation.
Where CEO Confidence Stands
Gordon Lamphere (27:42): I don’t want to get too repetitive on return to office and hybrid, but I’d love to dive back to the start of the episode, where we talked about how CEOs are perceiving things. Where is CEO confidence right now? For anybody listening, we’re filming in the middle of October, and this will probably go out near the end of October. Where is CEO confidence on hiring, but also on the economy in general, and how are they thinking about investment, leasing, and deploying capital going forward?
Joe Galvin (28:35): The Vistage CEO Confidence Index has been running since 2003, and I’ve been driving it since 2016, when I joined as chief research officer. It’s really interesting because we get the voice of CEOs. We had over thirteen hundred CEOs respond, which is a massive number of responses for any survey. What’s also valuable is that we know they’re all CEOs, because they’re all our members. So it’s not just the number, it’s the purity of the number.
The confidence index remains at historical lows. Compare it to the 2010s, which I call the rising tide decade, from the end of the Great Recession in 2010 up to COVID in 2020. There were ups and downs and some craziness, but by and large, steady, stable growth. Then COVID happened, and now we’re in a post-COVID world, and the data compared to that rising tide is really negative. Our confidence index rose slightly to 81.9, up about four points, but that’s not much. It’s been bouncing around the low to mid eighties since we stabilized out of COVID.
What’s holding it back is economic expectations. CEOs maintain a negative perception of the economy. Only twenty percent nationally thought the economy had improved over the last year, and only thirty-two percent think it will improve looking ahead. So there’s real negativity about the economy. When I ask about the economy, what you tell me can be driven by what’s happening in your business, and by which news source you choose to listen to.
When we ask about revenue and profits, 60% still expect revenue to increase in the year ahead. That’s up a little, but still down from the norms of the rising tide. Forty-eight percent still expect rising profits. So there are pockets where people are doing really well, but there’s not a lot of energy behind it. The third area we look at is expansion: 34% are going to increase investments in the year ahead, and 48% are going to increase headcount. Those numbers are closer to historical norms, but they’re still soft.
Joe Galvin (31:01): I’d summarize the sentiment by saying CEOs are on the fence. We have that time-worn saying, “Time will tell.” You look at this, and the economy is booming. You look at that, and the economy is going to decay. Are we poised for growth, or are we going to pivot to a recession? We don’t know, and that’s where CEOs are sitting right now. And we’re moving into strategic planning season. What’s 2026 going to look like? I’ve closed the third quarter, and my forecast will tell me where I’ll end the fourth. Now I’m looking out to 2026. What are tariffs going to do? Is inflation really going to spike? Is unemployment going to spike? Are interest rates going to go down? How do you plan in a world of turmoil? That’s why this data is so important. We’ll learn more when we run the survey again in December. We do it four times a year, and we’ll get a sense of their sentiment. But right now, I’d say they’re waiting to know whether to put up more sail and let the wind blow them, or roll up the sails and ride it out.
The Final Four
Gordon Lamphere (32:07): Let’s ride out a little on this podcast to our Final Four. It’s a great opportunity to wrap things up, learn a little more about you and where things are going, and maybe make some connections. The first thing we always love to do is dive into where our expert’s area of expertise is going. You’re a work expert. Where do you think work will be ten years from now?
Joe Galvin (32:43): Work will be radically different, because we’ll be living in an AI world. We’ve heard about AI for years and years, but when generative AI hit the mainstream, like the browser did, it exploded. So in ten years, I think you’ll see a radically different workforce. What’s really challenging is looking at my grandkids, or our friends’ kids coming out of college, and asking, how do you prepare for that? We live in an age of accelerated disruption, which means disruptions are happening faster. Even looking five years ahead, to what I call Workplace 2030, it’s going to be radically different. It will require people who are digitally engaged and motivated. The opportunities will be there, but they’ll change. It won’t be the more stable, traditional MF95 workplace.
Gordon Lamphere (33:32): We can’t give the next generation stability on this podcast, but we can potentially give them a little advice. If you were giving advice to a young Joe, what would it be?
Joe Galvin (33:47): Technology. Understand how it works and how to leverage it. You don’t have to be a technologist, but you need to be knowledgeable enough to create and design the systems that will power businesses. That will keep evolving as technology evolves, and customers will evolve too. The ability to translate customers’ evolving needs into whatever your product or service is will be the friction point where humans will always be needed. Or go to a trade school, get a good trade career, and build a nice electrical business, because I know I need somebody to come out and fix about half a dozen things in my house.
Gordon Lamphere (34:26): I think one of the biggest changes in my lifetime has been the increasing relevance of the trades. When I started in real estate in the late 2000s, the world of the trades was vastly different than it is today. I have so much respect for anybody who can actually do something real in the world with their hands. We see balance sheets all the time from plumbers and electricians we work with, and I don’t think enough white-collar workers realize how profitable some of the trades are.
Joe Galvin (35:10): I had no appreciation for the sophistication and quality of these businesses, whether individuals or larger companies in that space. I spent most of my career in tech, talking to tech people, and that’s a different world. At Vistage, twenty-three percent of our member companies are in construction and twenty-two percent are in manufacturing, and they’re just crazy cool companies doing amazing stuff that requires really specialized skills. That comes back to where we started: leaders are looking for qualified workers who can bring advanced skills to the advancing systems they want to deploy.
Gordon Lamphere (35:50): One of the ways we like to learn advanced skills is through media, whether books or podcasts. If someone’s listening right now, what would be the next book, podcast, or piece of media you’d suggest they pick up?
Joe Galvin (36:09): I follow Peter Zeihan, who wrote a book about all the changes coming. I find his content interesting and somewhat objective, so that would be a place to go. I also follow technology closely, so anything that speaks credibly about the disruption of AI in the workplace, and more importantly to the workforce, is going to be interesting. That’s where I’m focused. I spend most of my reading on what’s happening now, and a lot of my time digging into what our CEOs are thinking about, but I try to look over the horizon for things like that, because the shifts are going to be profound. It’s this broader notion of accelerated disruption: change is coming faster than it has before.
Gordon Lamphere (36:58): Speaking of disruption, the whole reason for the podcast is to disrupt our train of thought, look at a new part of the market, or listen to a new voice. Who’s the next voice we should have on the podcast?
Joe Galvin (37:17): I’d suggest a gentleman named Marc Emmer. Marc is a Vistage member and Vistage speaker out in California, and he’s in the process of publishing a series on trends across the workplace, technology, and society. By the time this podcast comes out, he’ll have published all four. Marc takes a very pragmatic look and summarizes the driving factors in a variety of categories very succinctly. It’s his trends series. Marc Emmer, a very, very smart man.
Gordon Lamphere (37:53): We’ll reach out to Marc. But if somebody wants to reach out to you, what’s the best way to get in contact?
Joe Galvin (37:57): Our email nomenclature is [email protected], or just go to vistage.com and the Research Center. You’ll find all of our content there. Everything we publish, our confidence index and our research reports, is available to everyone. We want to help all small and mid-sized business CEOs by drawing attention to the issues, topics, and decisions our community tells us are most important. We want to help CEOs become better leaders, make better decisions, and get better results. Vistage is a pretty cool place.
Gordon Lamphere (38:25): Joe, thank you so much. We really appreciate having you on the podcast, and we’ll have to have you on in the future.
Thanks again to Joe. We appreciate his insights. If you enjoyed the podcast, please give us a like, a five-star rating, and a review. Your comments, interactions, and subscriptions truly matter and help us continue to bring on quality guests. You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. I’m Gordon Lamphere with The Real Finds Podcast. Thank you for listening.
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